Saturday, August 23, 2014
Pilgrims: Primary & Secondary Sources Reflection
Read Alicia Crane Williams’ article “Women and Children First: The Mayflower Pilgrims.” Then answer the following questions.
1. What is your reaction to the experiences of the Plymouth colonists as discussed by Williams? Discuss your thoughts completely. Use textual evidence to prove your thoughts.
2. Then begin thinking about Bradford's primary source (Of Plymouth Plantation) as well as Williams's secondary source. Did you find one of the accounts more informative than the other? more interesting? more moving? Explain your answers completely. Use textual evidence to prove your thoughts.
**in your blog, use 2 vocab words from the week 1 vocab extension list and one vocab word from the Of Plymouth Plantation words to know **
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1.) I was surprised by how many people died. When it said there was only 7 people that were taking care of everyone I found that hard to believe. I figured the pilgrims would be distant and aloof from the indians when they got there because they hadn't met there yet. I'm sure when they heard the cacophony of noise they were pretty scared also.
ReplyDelete2.) I thought the primary source was more informative because it didn't focus on names of families, it was talking about what the indians and pilgrims did and it talked about the group as a whole.
I don't think you answered #1 correctly. As I read your answer, I think you focused on the excerpts from Bradford rather than the article from Williams. With #2 you really need to use more textual evidence to prove your thoughts.
Delete1. It really gave me shock when I read that children ranged from nursing infants to teenagers. Maybe not so much for the teenagers, but if I were a mother I would have to think twice about it. I was also in awe that the woman named Elizabeth Hopkins gave birth to her child on the Mayflower. I would probably stay back to my homeland if I were close to my birth date. I have a lot of lament for the woman, Dorothy Bradford, who 'fell' off the ship. But I'm guessing she was aloof or hated her life so much to jump off the edge.
ReplyDelete2. I found both of them quite informative beings I didn't know a whole lot about the Pilgrim time besides Pocahontas and the little bit from elementary school. But, I do feel like Bradford only showed the 'negative' sides of the journey of meeting the Natives. With Williams I feel like she showed the brief summaries of how the lives actually went on the trip. She showed that all sorts of people were on the board, especially with the women.
Good thoughts with #1. Remember lament is a verb so you'd say you lament Dorothy. Do you think there's apprehension about if she jumped or if someone else may have done this to her? Good thoughts with the second question.
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ReplyDelete1) I feel as though reproduction was a vital part of survival. This is obvious in the title 'Women and Children First: The Mayflower Pilgrims'. I think for us the amount of children seems excessive but in a way it was necessary because almost half of the passengers died on the journey. Not to mention, many children died so if a lot of children weren't born, then the colony wouldn't have survived. Life was a commodity at the time. ("produced five children, though only two survived their childhoods.")
ReplyDelete2) I think the secondary source was more informative and interesting because the language it was written in was more modern and the way it was written was very straight-forward in comparison to Bradford's descriptions. ("...102 passengers, of which half were women and children. ....thirty one children ranging in age...") Also, the secondary source didn't keep yelling about providence. ("a special providence of God"). However, I believe Bradford's writing was more moving because of word choice and the fact that he actually lived it. The secondary source would never know the hardships and struggles that the Pilgrims lived through and the source doesn't pretend to. She is a cerebral and keeps it factual, expunging any bias that you could find in Bradford's piece.
Good thoughts with the Williams article. I appreciate your thoughts with the second question. Nice job using vocabulary.
DeleteMy reaction was extremely shocked, almost horrified by the events that occurred on the Mayflower. There was no privacy in any of their lives, and the cacophony must've been almsot unbearable. These people were put through conditions I can only imagine; this definitely was not feigned. To be honest, I'd hate to be pregnant on the Mayflower or have five children just so two could survive. I cannot imagine the lament that would come along with that. To me, Of Plymouth Plantation was more interesting to me than this excerpt because it was longer. I had more information to comprehend, and it seemed more like a story than a series of facts. But on the flip side, the "Women and Children First: The Mayflower Pilgrims." was more moving because it seemed more "real" to me. The facts were blunt and austere; nothing was sugar coated.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your thoughts with both questions. Lament is a verb so if you want to make it a noun, change it to lamentations.
DeleteThe pilgrims are forced to go through tough times and to think about what they can do to survive. On the way over to the US they go through many different obstacles including diseases, cacophony waves, and hunger. Elizabeth Hopkins, who had a kid on the boat, experienced a hard time on the boat. Many of the men and women had hard times but the reason they came to the US is to make their life better for them and for their kids. Even though the pilgrims had seen the indians, they chose to stay aloof because they were not sure about them. I believe that they were both very detailed. They both let you know what the pilgrims though of the new land in the Americas. Once they landed they first thanked the god and said a prayer and then started to wonder on what they could do to prepare for the winter.
ReplyDeleteI think your ideas for the first question are decent. I don't think cacophony works as you have it written. For the second question, I'd like more thought because you had three different questions to discuss.
Delete1) I would think there would be more sentinel on watch of smaller families then less of them and more kids and family members. They had a lot of kids and had one of their children on the boat. They felt lament when they thought the lady fell off the boat and thought she committed suicide. The people were probably more austere then todays people.
ReplyDelete2) The secondary source was more informational to me and made more sense to me and it was better for me to understand.
I'm not sure I understand your first sentence. You are correct with some of the other thoughts. Lament is a verb so you'd need to change it to lamentations or say they lamented the lady who fell off the boat. The second question needs more thought and depth. Take a closer look at everything you need to answer & discuss.
DeleteI find it hard to believe the most people on the boat were women and children. Some of the colonist gave birth on the boat. That would be very hard with the boat bouncing on the waves. You can't even fake this it isn't feigned. I don't know how they can do that in such a way. Needing to have so many children just to keep a couple would be horrible the kids were just like a commodity to the guys and women for work. I found moe information in (Of Plymouth Plantation) but it was way more boring. WIth this account we get a writing that makes sense and is very interesting. Like the births, deaths and how many children they had .
ReplyDeleteI find the idea of the kids being like a commodity interesting; I'd really like this to be expanded upon. Prove your thoughts for question number two. You could do more here.
DeleteMy reaction is kinda amazed at how many children people had while they are low on food and didn't take into account whether their children would live to be 11. In addition, at least three of the women were pregnant during the voyage. William's information was more factual, since it was a secondary source, he was not there. They had more interesting facts but since Bradford was actually there, it was more moving. John and Priscilla had ten children, who turned and produced 69 grandchildren and nearly 400 hundred great-grandchildren. Williams was more cerebral since he knew more facts to me. The people were more described as lament because of diseases and lack of food. Scurvy being one of the deadlier ones, was lack of vitamin c.
ReplyDeleteCareful, Williams is a woman not a "he." Good thoughts with question number one. However, you should have had more depth and thought with the second question. Lament is a verb so if you're going to use it as a noun change it to lamentations.
DeleteThey had a hard and long journey across the open ocean. I think the passengers need a better way of living because the kids were getting sick and not able to stay live their full life. "Though Oceanus and Damaris did not live into adulthood". I thought William's secondary source was aloof and more interesting, than (Of Plymouth Plantations) because it didn't talk about providence, and I thought the secondary source was more bulwark and more in death then the other.
ReplyDeleteI think you could have added more depth with both questions. Challenge yourself to really prove your thoughts. Also, bulwark doesn't work... it is a defensive wall and that's not what you mean in your sentence.
DeleteThe first thing that amazed me was the fact that many families had over 10 children, and that was normal! I was also amazed that it was normal for people to not live past childhood, and that they seem to show no lament to the fact they have lost a child. The Standish family had over 400 great grandchildren. I only have 2 cousins that are directly related to me.
ReplyDeleteThe primary source "Of Plymouth Plantation" was not interesting to me what so ever. The best way I can describe it is in the following. If I wrote a first hand account on how it felt to grow up in the reforming of the school system. Although it would be a first hand account, it would not be particularly interesting to listen to. Your attention would be expunged simply because it would not be interesting. I found it far more interesting to read the second article because it was swift, to the point, and not wrote from the stance of a pilgrim.
Interesting thoughts with both pieces.
Delete1.I thought they would do everything right, like planting corn and beens,and how to hunt and fish. Also I thought that they would have a CHATTEL that would know how to do somethings.
ReplyDelete2. His second source I thought was more informational then " Of Plymouth Plantation," Because it talked about how many people there on the AUSTERE ship. The primary source was more interesting because it talked about how the Indians showed them how to plant corn and beans. Also the primary source was more moving than the secondary source, because it talked about how the Indians became friends.
I don't think you are answering question one correctly. As I read your answer, I believe you are discussing Bradford's piece, not Williams's. Keep going with your thoughts and proving those ideas.
Delete1. I thought that there were a lot of children and people that died during this voyage but the amount of kids they had was very high. The way the text sounded, it was like their large amount of kids were treated as their chattel. I was surprised by some of it when I first read it but when I thought about it, it made a lot more sense. One example is the amount of people she stated that died. When you think of all the obstacles that was mentioned in "Of Plymouth Plantation" like scurvy or the winter, you realize there were a lot of deaths.
ReplyDelete2.I felt that "Of Plymouth Plantation" was more interesting yet informing. Williams's was more facts about the lamenting and happiness they went through. Williams's was more aloof and so her stories were not as detailed as Bradford's because he experienced everything he wrote first hand. He was more detailed like talking about the hues of the land or the emotions they had.
Interesting thought about the kids being chattel. I'd really like to hear more of this. Good thoughts with the second question. Lament should be changed to lamentations.
Delete1. I was shocked by the events that took place. "Married soon after, John and Priscilla had ten children, who in turn produced sixty-nine grandchildren." The fact that they had this many kids surprised me. I thought that back then they would be austere and not have so many kids. It aslo surprised me that it was acceptable to divorce or re-marry several times. I was also surprised at how many people died. I thought they would be more prepared and connoisseurs of how to survive in nature if they were going on this trip.
ReplyDelete2. I thought that they were both very informative and a helpful commodity when learning about the events of the Mayflower. I thought they were both interesting because I didn't know about the events in either of them. I thought that "Of Plymouth Plantation" was probably more moving. "...and was their interpreter and was a special instrument sent from God for their good beyond their expectation." The fact that Squanto helped them without even knowing them makes you want to help other people.
Interesting thoughts in both pieces. I see how you want to use commodity but I'm wondering if there is a better word choice.
Delete1. I thought that it was hard to believe because it said that half of them died, and I couldn't imagine how many of them were left. Then it said that they were murdering each other and getting hung for it. At first I didn't think that there were that many who survived but there were. I can't imagine having children and mothering them while being on a boat. Then having 15 kids, and only having a few of them survive couldn't be feigned. These people were obviously connoisseurs in the way of how to survive in a new and challenged place.
ReplyDelete2. I found the secondary source more informative because it was easier to understand, and I could relate to it better. The primary source was more like a story and not informative.
Interesting thoughts with the first question. I really wanted more thought and depth with the second question.
DeleteThinking about the experiences that the pilgrims experienced, there was a lot of action going on from their journey to the New World. As it states in Williams article, "She carried 102 passengers of which were nearly half women". . .This sentence really shows that woman were going to be a huge part in the beginning of colonization in the New World. With that being said, young children kept popping up and before you knew it, you could have 300+ people in your own colony. You would have to make sure you stayed aloof from the Indians so that you wouldn't get close and personal. The indians may have felt as if they were the conniosseurs of the land and that they didn't want other people settling on their land, but they would have to get used to sharing if colonists just showed up.
ReplyDeleteI felt that Williams secondary source was more informative to me in complete honesty. I thought it went in detail about stuff that we didn't know such as ". . .was convicted of murder, gaining the distinction of being the first person executed by hanging in the New World." The secondary source provided a ton of first hand perspectives and information we didn't know. It didn't talk all about commodities like their crops which made this piece a little more interesting.
Interesting thoughts with the first question. I enjoyed your thoughts with the second question but remember her article is secondhand information, not a firsthand perspective.
Delete1. My first reaction after reading Williams's text is that this time must have been full of all sorts of lamenting, but a lot of perseverance. Everyone was leaving behind or losing spouses, friends and children, and still had to have the courage to go on. For instance, Williams's states, "...Her husband William died... only two [of their children] survived their childhoods." They definitely sacrificed a lot during this time.
ReplyDelete2. I believe the secondary source required you to procure the informative pieces about that time period through context clues and inferring while the primary source was more informative straight out. Bradford's primary source also included more about the Native Americans and about the experience after the voyage, such as in this quotation, "... In two or three months' time half of their company died... being infected with scurvy and other diseases..." Williams seemed to expunge any information past the voyage, and talk more about how many children survived in each family. Both were very interesting about this time period, though.
Did you have to really use context clues with Williams's piece? I would think that the primary source would have made you do this more. Good thoughts for both questions.
DeleteThere were many children who were born on the journey over and even many more when they settled. "...Susanna White gave birth to her son Peregrine on board..." There were also many people who died throughout the voyage because of the harsh winter or even killing themselves. "...Dorothy actually committed suicide..." Many were LAMENT about the losses, but they may not have shown it.
ReplyDeleteI found that the secondary source made much more sense and had details about certain people, but the primary source gave more details about the voyage. Many of the Pilgrims had died on the voyage and because of the harsh winter. As they learned how to adapt to the not so DESOLATE area, many children were being born. "...had ten children, who in turn produced sixty-nine grandchildren and nearly four hundred great grandchildren..." The Pilgrims also were CEREBRAL on their voyage because they had to learn new ways to live.
Decent thoughts for the first question. For lament, change the tense (Many lamented...) Good thoughts for the second question.
Delete1. I didn't realize that they had that many women and children, I would have thought would have had more men to build the houses and go hunting or stand as a sentinel. I thought that the two kids that were causing trouble were funny. There parents are probably austere.
ReplyDelete2. I think that the Plymouth plantation story was more informative but the secondary source was better at giving personal storys like how many people died and how they probably were all lament.
Use more textual evidence for future blogs. Work on expanding your thoughts more as well.
Delete1. Some of their experiences were very difficult and dangerous "Almost lit the gunpowder," others were experiences that should have been expected "Gave birth" "Boys terrorized the passengers."
ReplyDelete2. I found Williams's secondary source more interesting because it seemed more personal, and was easier to feel solace toward them. It gave names and what happened to each person. "She fell overboard from the Mayflower," "Francis endangered the ship." In Williams' source its almost as though you can hear the cacophony of the passengers and how they were aloof during sickness.
I'd like to hear more of your thoughts for the first question. Interesting thoughts for the second question
Delete1.They had so many hardships that it seemed like the whole trip wasn't even worth it. Many people had lost their children, husbands, or wives, with that much loss and being so far away from comfort and home it would be unbearable. They didn't have anywhere to burry the bodies while on the ship and throwing you child off the boat would be terrible. Many of the Pilgrims were full of lament by the end of the first winter. "Miraculously, all survived the voyage and the first winter, though Oceanus and Damaris did not live to adulthood." I thought it was odd that there was a family who seemed incongruous and out of place on the ship. There were two sons John and Francis Billington they caused mayhem where ever they went on the boat and after the boat was docked.
ReplyDelete2.I think the secondary source was more informative, interesting, and moving. It told more of how the children died and how families were torn apart. There may not have been more on the Indians in Bradford's piece but the way it was put together and written just made it harder to understand and relate to. The second piece told of a few different families that had gone through many hardships and how they had a rough time with disease. Bradford's did tell how they obtained food and how they made it through the winter and the next couple years.
Good thoughts for both questions.
Delete1) I was very shocked with the amount of women and children on the boat... You would think that their would be more men on the boat for labor and less children because usually children would be in the way in a situation like that. There were a lot of mishaps and deaths.. A women "accidentally" fell off the side of the boat. A lot of people also died of illness. And for the boy who terrorized the passengers I would have expunged them from the boat.
ReplyDelete2) I found the secondary source more informative and more interesting because it talked more about how their lives were, who were on the ship and what happened. Some people kept themselves aloof from each other while the others got sick from being near each other all the time. It talked about how many women and children their were in the boat which I found interesting because their were only a few people survived.
Decent thoughts for question one. More thoughts on the second question. Forgot a bit about the vocab.
Delete1. I was shocked that they did not bring more people on the trip, you would think that they would have figured that there would be deaths.
ReplyDelete2. I think that the second article was better, because there was more primary source information.
When you receive 10 minutes to delve in and write about your ideas, you need to use it. Delve deeper from know on.
Delete1. I thought while reading this that there is a lot of death on their journey. Many children didn't survive, and some were born on the Mayflower. But people came together and helped each other out, and if something happened to their loved one they ended up marrying someone else.
ReplyDelete2. I was surprised to read that there was actually a child named Oceanus born on the Mayflower on the way to America, and how many kids that Elizabeth had to take care of. I think that it is kind of a neat name to give the baby born on the Mayflower because they are on the ocean.
I don't think you completely did what question number two was asking about. Keep going.
Delete1. I thought it was interesting that they brought so many women and children. Its nice to have to them to clean the cabins and make food but I thought they would have brought more men to help build and fight. When you're going to a new unexplored land you probably would want lots of men for the job. They did have lots of young men and when they grow up they will be of help, but I was surprised they didnt't bring more adult men on the initial voyage.
ReplyDelete2. I though that since this was a secondary source it had less opinion involved in the writing. Bradfords was his own writing so he had a lot of biased opinions in this writing. They both were factual and informative, but I would rather read a secondary source than a primary just because it is easier to understand.
You have some good thoughts. Don't forget textual evidence and vocab.
DeleteI think that their experiences were quite tragic. There were a lot of deaths and illness on the ride over and when they started settling. Im sure those people had a a green hue while they came over because of the sea sickness. I wonder how they expunged the bodies? The pilrims didn't know how to handle the desolate wilderness in the new world.There was also many marriages in the colony. Many people got remarried after their spouse died. Some even had a lot of children after being remarried. It said that one woman had ten children and sixty-nine grandchildren. Thats crazy! I thought that the secondary source was more informational. That is also the one I liked more. It was more interesting to hear about the facts than listen to one persons perspective on the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteGood thoughts for the first question. Expand & prove more with the second question.
Delete1) I was surprised on the fact of how many children were on the boat let alone the pregnant and I would have thought that maybe their would be more people on the ship but yet since they didn't have a whole lot of people then there is a lot of room for everyone else.
ReplyDelete2) The second source was much better I thought because it let you in on more information and didn't leave me hanging as much. It also gave more description on how things happened and how things turned out.
You have a fine start. Next time dig deeper, provide textual evidence to back up your thoughts, & use vocab.
Delete1.There were a lot of deaths and a lot of young children on the boat. I was expecting there to be more men and maybe some younger teenage boys. I was not expecting there to be so many children and women on the boat. I would have thought that they would not be wanted and they would not be invited to travel with the men. I thought the men would have thought of them as a burden and expunged them because they wouldn't be of much help. I feel like the men would be austere and not want to deal with the women or children.
ReplyDelete2. I liked Williams's writings better than Bradford's because it was easier for me to understand. It gave information that I wanted to learn about. Bradford's writing only gave one account, while Williams explained things generally. Williams's writing was a commodity for me, and Bradford's really didn't interest me.
Overall good thoughts. Expand on #2 more. I don't think commodity works.
Delete1. It surprised me that there were that many women having children on the boat and that they survived through the winter. It would be hard to take care of yourself in a situation like that let alone many children. It would also be hard living like they did. Children dying and having to throw them off the boat and friends and maybe family committing suicide or just dying. I would expunge myself from the ship.
ReplyDelete2. I think that Williams' was better, this one had more specific people and you were seeing what they had to go through and the statistics really made you think about what they had to go through with everyday life and losing loved ones. He showed a lot of lament and made you feel bad for the people on the ship.
Some good thoughts. Expand your proof (think textual evidence). Lament is a verb so as it is written it doesn't quite work. You should say he lamented...
Delete1. It was very interesting finding out how many women, children, and even pregnant women were on board the Mayflower. I hadn't realized that almost half of people on the voyage were women and children. As William states in the reading, "... she carried 102 passengers, of which nearly half were women and children." I also wouldn't have guessed that pregnant women would go on the voyage. That rough journey would have been terrible.
ReplyDelete2. I feel like William's secondary source was more informative than Bradford's primary source. Williams provided numbers and names of real people that were on the voyage. As Williams' states, " Priscilla Mullins -- today probably the best-known of all the Mayflower colonists--would have been about sixteen years old..." William used real documented information to tell about the people on the Mayflower. Bradford's, on the other hand, was more opinion of what he believed.
Bradford was there so he knew what was going on which as a result showed the bias of the times. She had to research, but he didn't. Otherwise, good job choosing the textual evidence. Don't forget about vocab
DeleteWhen I was reading this, I was amazed by how many children there were that were on this ship, and then how many children died, and didn't make it to be an adult. Another thing that got me is when they said that "rumors persist to present day that Dorothy actually committed suicide. The thing that got me about this is that she had two children already, and the father was aloof. Also, when susanna White was trying to keep all of her children alive I think she vanquished as much as she could for her first two. These woman were so desolate to their children trying to keep them alive.
ReplyDeleteOut of these two pieces of writing I think that the secondary source really got to me about how many children there were and how they just had to keep fighting to survive and to help their children stay alive. You can tell from this section that it was not easy for them. Al lot of people lost their spouses and their children and would remarry but would lose one of their kids.
Good thoughts for the first question. Desolate doesn't work. For the second question, make sure all the questions are answered.
Delete1) I'm surprised by a few of the facts, though I know I shouldn't be. When I read about the number of people on board, the ages of the children, the pregnancies, etc., I can't help but be shocked at why these people would take such a big risk when they're in the middle of a crucial part of their-- and their children's-- lives. I was also shocked by the number of children each family had. It definitely wasn't the average household with 2.5 children and a cookie-cutter house. I mean, the text said there were fifteen children between two brothers households. Along with this, I was shocked, and intrigued by Bradford's wife's death. Is it really possible that she killed herself, and if so, why?
ReplyDelete2) Between Bradford and William's works, I think I would definitely choose Williams for information, Bradford's for moving, and maybe both for interest. Though Williams is only a secondary source, I find it a great source for the information because there is little to no bias when she writes it. She's writing the facts. Granted, she includes a few thoughts of Bradford's when he judges the families full of volume and cacophony onboard the ship, but she, herself, does not write a biased opinion. Williams does not, however expunge the records of any family on the ship, and neither does Bradford. With both of their tellings, you learn of interesting stories-- some funny, some not-- and you start to get a feel of what life may have been like 'back in the day.'
Good thoughts!
Delete1. The women and children of the Mayflower did not have it easy, nor did anyone. The women had many, many kids, but only because most would die. On several cases, mothers and fathers would die too, leaving the spouse to fend for their children until they could remarry. It was definitely hard for all of them.
ReplyDelete2. I found Williams' account to be not only more informative, but more interesting and sort of more moving. Williams' account was more informative mainly because it really got into who all was there, what happened to them, and reasons why. Of Plymouth Plantation just told the basic background of the Pilgrims as a whole, not individually. It was more interesting to learn about each family, rather than all of the Pilgrims together. As for moving, I don't really find either account moving in any way.
Generally decent thoughts. Could expand more and provide textual evidence. Don't forget vocabulary.
Delete1) So many people lived through this time, and so many died. It is crazy that some of them had 15 children. It said in the story "miraculously all had survived the winter." It surprised me that a wife can take care of five or six children through the winter and help them all stay alive. The family may have sometimes used their older relatives as a type of chattel, but it is how they lived. It helped them survive through some of the hardest times. It makes a big difference when they have a dad and a mom, but when there is only one figure, it sounds very challenging.
ReplyDelete2) William's secondary source told more information in a shorter story. The secondary source was more incongruous. It made you want to keep reading. It sounded more realistic. This source helped me understand more about the Pilgrim's and how hard it was to live. The first source was a little harder to read as well. I could understand the secondary source so much better. Of Plymouth Plantation, I felt like they believed in God, and it talked about god. When I read The Mayflower Pilgrims, it didn't just talk about god, it talked about the actual people and what they did to survive. In the primary source it says "a special providence of god." It shows God was a big thing in their lives.
Good thoughts and choice of evidence.
DeleteWhat Williams told us about really didn't shock me. What did make me think was about the children that were born before the voyage and survived that and the first winter but then later died of other matters besides the two hradest things to survive. I think the secondary source was more informative although the primary source gave some detail about how the winter and first voyage was. The secondary source really put it into prospective when they actually talked about real families and how it was for them not just saying a lot of people died. One family said, "Two months later her husband William died, leaving her with the baby and five-year-old son." Could you imagine at first how aloof the mother is about the death of her husband how she is going to raise her kids by herself? This is bad not to mention the cacophony throughout the boat travel with the kids. This really tells what the families went through and not just many people of families died. It helped put it into prospective when telling us exactly like it was. The primary source was more feigned to me than the secondary source.
ReplyDeleteSome good thoughts. Nice job choosing evidence but work on weaving it into your thoughts. Could have added a bit more to the first question.
Delete1) I thought the experiences that the people went through sounded really harsh. Some women had to give birth on this ship and when they got to the new world a lot of the child didn't make it to adulthood. And in this new world they even had to deal with a murder, something you wouldn't think you would have to deal with when you were coming to a new world with a new start.
ReplyDelete2) I thought the secondary source had more information because it talked more about them and the lives that they lived. It seemed like he was talking more about them and seemed like he had a connection with them. He used "she fell overboard" which sounds more like he knows her.
Good thoughts for the first question. I'd like to see more thought and evidence with the second question. Don't forget about the vocabulary.
Delete1) I knew that they had a lot of hard times to get to where they wanted to get to, but I never knew it was that hard on themselves. When I thought about these things you always go to the first Thanksgiving and thought they would be happy and healthy all the time, but when we read about all of this it showed the other point of view on how everything isn't so perfect.
ReplyDelete2) I think the Plymouth of Plantation has more evidence because it told from the weather and how brutal the winter was to the forest that seemed aloof and distant. I also lamented for them because of all the people that got sick and there was only seven to take care of all of the sick. I was glad to hear when the Indians came into play and helped them out and vanquish the sickness and have everyone get healthy.
I think more textual evidence would be appropriate for the first question - remember it's about the "Women and Children First" article. Nice job with vocabulary.
Delete1) After reading this, I found it surprising that so many people came with children. I was expecting there to be more men on the boat than women and no children at all. I was expecting more lament rather than the ambitious people than there were. They seemed to look for the good rather than the bad while voyaging to the New World. In the reading, there were some trouble makers on the boat. " The Billingtons' two sons -- John, sixteen years old, and Francis, some years younger-- terrorized the other passengers throughout the voyage. Francis endangered the ship by firing his father's fowling piece, igniting a fire that almost spread to nearby barrels of gunpowder. And young John got lost in the woods in May. . ." To me, the Billington parents didn't seem like very austere parents.
ReplyDelete2) I enjoyed the second piece the most. I believe more was talked about from a pilgrams point of view rather than a captains. There seemed to me more details in this piece and it wasn't a boring read.
Good thoughts and evidence for the first question. The second question needs more thought and evidence.
Delete1. The passengers on the Mayflower experienced many hardships and difficulties. Some were luckier and were able to vanquish illness and cold while others were not. This left the others to lament over their loss. One mother, Dorothy Bradford, left behind her husband and two-year-old son when she fell overboard. Some believe that she actually committed suicide and expunged herself from the boat.
ReplyDelete2. I believe both sources were informative. In Of Plymouth Plantation, I felt as if we had more insight to what the pilgrims thought. The secondary source written by Alicia Crane Williams showed us about the variety of people that traveled over on the Mayflower. I found the second one more interesting because it gave us an insight to multiple families.
You show understanding of the pieces. I'd love to see more of your thoughts and ideas.
Delete1.) My reaction to Williams piece was surprised! The fact that they made it across the Atlantic ocean is one thing but actually knowing what happened along the way or when they got there is amazing! They lost many people of the 102 that were aboard. Ships were not that big back then so it must have been really crowded! Also, there was a lot of deaths, marrages, and births throughout the trip and through the first years of living on the new land.
ReplyDelete2) I would say Bradford's primary source had more info. I liked that he talked about a lot of the kids and not just about the major things going on. Everyone hears about all the major events but sometimes its nice to know what happened on an everyday basis. I had no idea the mayflower caught on fire and almost set off kegs of gun powder! If that would have happened, where would we be now?
Good ideas on the first question. The second question has me a bit confused; I think you meant Williams article when you talked about talking about the kids. Keep going.
Delete1. I was shocked that there were more women and children on the boat than there were men, because I figured that they would bring over more men so they had strong people to explore. It also surprised me how many people died, and how quickly people remarried and had children. For example John and Priscilla had ten children right after they were married. It seemed as though they were more aloof during their marriages back during that time and just married to have kids and a husband. Although, it didn't surprise me that they had to expunge the male who killed someone because how else would he be punished?
ReplyDelete2. I feel as though both accounts were informative enough for people to understand what went on during that timeframe. Although I think that in Bradford's he told the bad side of the story, while Williams told the more factual side. Personally I liked Williams' story better because the real examples made it easier to understand and relate to. For example he stated that ", rumors persist to the present day that Dorothy actually committed suicide...." This quote made it more realistic because it made us realize how hard or stressful life could been back then. Although, no matter how she died, I'm sure her family members received great solace from people around them due to her passing.
Good thoughts.Good thoughts and use of textual evidence.
Delete1. I was surprised to read how many kids were born during the trip and once the reached the new land, and even more surprised at how few of the kids actually survived until adulthood. Parents must have lamented a lot from having many of their children die. It was crazy how it seemed as if they started producing kids right after marriage, and how many kids some of the couples had. As it said in the text, "Married soon after, John and Priscilla has ten children, who in turn produced sixty-nine grandchildren and nearly four hundred great-grandchildren." These two sound like connoisseurs in making a family.
ReplyDelete2. I felt like Bradford's primary source and more information that Williams' secondary source. I thought both of them were very interesting, but I thought Williams' was a little more interesting. Williams' had a ton of interesting facts in such a short story. Williams was able to procure a lot of information for not experiencing any of it first hand. I thought it was very interesting when Williams wrote, "John Billington constantly quarreled with Bradford and other leaders and kept company with troublemakers. In 1630 he was convicted of murder, gaining the distinction of being the first person executed by hanging in the New World." Even though I enjoyed Williams' more, I still enjoyed Bradford's. I enjoyed reading about the experiences between the Pilgrims and Indians.
Good thoughts... connoisseur - maybe a tad inappropriate. Good use of textual evidence.
Delete1) Reading about all the number of marriages and children made me jump to conclusions. It almost sounded like it was a necessity to be married. And even more so to reproduce and have numerous children. I almost think that this was a form of survival technique. As it states in the first few sentences "...she carried 102 passengers, of which nearly half were women and children." Which surprises me because carrying children on this dangerous of a trip seems unreal now a days. The trip had a number of hues already. So it really helps me realize how important it was to bring along children.
ReplyDelete2) I found "The Plymouth Plantation" more informative for more than one reason. I felt like it explained in more detail of where the setting was and the emotions that the narrative and the others around him were feeling. They were grouped into two separate groups (Pilgrims and Indians) which was easier to follow what was going on. With "Williams Secondary Source" there were a number of individual names and wives that were mentioned and it was very overwhelming. I could grasp that, yes, it was important to have children and wives that come first. I just wish it was more of journal from one person I could understand in more detail what went on in the Mayflower. Because, in fact, I would like to learn more about the Mayflower then Cape Cod.
Good thoughts and use of textual evidence. I'm not sure I understand the meaning of "hue" in the first answer.
Delete1. I thought the number of deaths on board the ship was surprising as well as the number of births there were. I would have figured that the new borns would be more susceptible to disease and infection rather than the adults or children. The new borns don't have the ability to fight off these diseases and infections like adults and children. I also would have thought that the wives and husbands whose spouses had dies would be lamenting over their deaths and not be jumping into another marriage to have more kids.
ReplyDelete2. I thought the second was more interesting because it gave more insight to the families and how they functioned. I thought it was pretty cool to know the number of children the parents had had and then the number of grandchildren and then their great grandchildren those same two parents had all together.
Decent thoughts. Didn't use any vocab.
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